Would you consider yourself a STEM or humanities person?

[superborb]

After recent complaints about the HUMANITIES OF IT ALL by someone under f-lock, I am wondering about the balance within fandom. As a teen in fandom, I did feel like a substantial fraction of fandom were also science-y people. Biased, of course, by the fact that I would have sought out those people.

Back then, I was very good at critical reading (of the sort that standardized testing rewards), but because I understood myself to be bad at essay writing, I thought myself definitely not a hums person at all. (Though I loved my AP English teacher so much, I thought I might want to major in English in college. One class disabused me of the notion.) Anyway it was enough that when Erin mentioned that I was good at hums stuff it cued a mini existential crisis...

Of course, this all plays into the false dichotomy of STEM vs hums that I've come to dislike, but at the same time, I dooo think it's worth discussing? Like no, they're not at all orthogonal the way it gets presented sometimes, but there are worldview differences if you're strongly one or the other that are kind of interesting.

Namely, I think my STEM background inclines me strongly to prefer quantitative evidence and distrust anecdata, to argue strongly and dispassionately with friends -- but to divorce the idea from the person. (I'm not saying these are exclusively STEM-y things, just that that is where those parts of me were nurtured.)

Also, poll here for the next 24 h:

Would you consider yourself a STEM or humanities person?

— &helena; (@superborb) March 12, 2021

Comments

[ilanala]

I replied on Twitter but to elaborate: I have a vague, unscientific impression that my fandom communities have skewed more to the humanities side, but there was also a decent number of STEM people. Some of the first fandoms I was particularly active in were for scifi shows so I wonder if you get a bit more sciencey types there (or maybe fewer because the bad science hurts).

Anyway, I was just looking at some discussion of the narrative structure of MDZS yesterday and my reaction was basically "Wow, I don't care" so while I'm a bit muddled in terms of STEM vs. humanities (BA biology, French minor, MA linguistics), I'm definitely not that kind of humanities person.

[superborb]

Ooh, that's a good point, scifi probably skews way heavier into science-y people.

Ahahahaha I think that sort of thing would depend on how insightful it was... Which is probably a high bar to reach.

[forestofglory]

Gah, I've been trying to answer your poll and I don't feel properly either. I've studied bits of both, and stuff that exists in the overlap like environmental history, but I don't feel like I have an in depth knowledge of any of it.

[superborb]

Yeah, I bet most people really feel somewhat in the middle on this! Bc it's really not a binary choice, is it?

[forestofglory]

Yeah, its really not!

[narie]

I also think that fandom has skewed towards humanities, as you know from my previous griping, hah. I make no secret of being a STEM person, tho I also have a bit of a mixed background; did my science undergrad at a place with a very strong liberal arts tradition, so did a fair bit of humanities there, and my hard science PhD in a social sciences department, tho that was partly a historical artefact. As a polyglot I'm also very keen on languages and linguistics, so...

My impression, perhaps inaccurate, is that there's more engagement with the humanities/social science from STEM people (in fandom) than there is STEM interest from humanities, so the fandom... STEM content mean shifts, but I could just be being myopic. But who knows?

[superborb]

The poll is showing that you're... probably right about that haha. But yeah, I also went to a really liberal arts college, which I really appreciated, even if I ended up doing hard science / not that many humanities classes.

Mmm yeah, I guess it's really hard to get any systematic overview. I'm not sure if I have enough anecdata either way to form an initial hypothesis on that.

[jjhunter]

Absolutely both. I feel like neurobiology and poet are two sides of the same coin: both are means of exploring what it means to be human in a particular time and space.

[superborb]

A good way of putting it! And yeah, as I've grown older, I've come to appreciate more how intertwined everything is.

[momijizukamori]

I'm definitely both, heh, though if I had to pick, I'd probably be STEM (I have a BSc in Biology, minor in English Lit, and a BA in Computer Science). I think my friends in fandom are a mix - some have STEM backgrounds, some have Humanities backgrounds, a couple have Fine Arts backgrounds. Several are librarians, which also straddles the STEM/Humanities divide a little.

That said I feel like my tendency to analyze texts and write meta is more a product of my humanities background than my STEM one - science is a lot more 'here's a bunch of data points and the conclusions we drew based on them' while humanities are more about coherently organizing an argument based on more ambiguous textual evidence.

[superborb]

Seeeee I think forming hypotheses based on ambiguous data is a key part of being a scientist! Though yeah, your conclusions probably need more concrete evidence ^^;

[momijizukamori]

Yeah, it's definitely important to being good at experimental research - but I don't feel like it was really taught in undergrad science the way it was in my English lit classes.

[superborb]

True, definitely not emphasized at the undergrad level! Other things you miss as an undergrad in science is how many wrong turns and false starts in Real Science there are...

[momijizukamori]

Haha yes. And undergrad CS (and by extension math) doesn't teach any reasoning that isn't firm logical proofs. Stuff works or it doesn't, no ambiguity.

I think most of the bad-take arguments I see are from people too young to have a strong academic background in reasoning, from STEM or from Humanities. The ones that think reading critically means finding all the flaws in something rather than analyzing it closely.

[dolorosa_12]

From personal preference (and aptitude), I sit firmly on the humanities side of things: I was always better at humanities subjects at school, I have a BA, Master's, and PhD in humanities subjects. However, although I work as a librarian (which is a more humanities-type field of work), I work as a librarian in a science/medical faculty, and do a lot of work in support of medical research, so I've sort of ended up being on the STEM side of things in spite of myself.

I still would never call myself a 'STEM person,' though.

[superborb]

It's interesting bc I feel like more people have said they had a science background and now work in a middle space than starting from a hums background! But it's probably natural that the ~real world~ mostly tends to straddle the boundary between the two, so most people end up there.

[unrelaxing]

I'm a humanities person through and through, and did a social work degree as well as an arts degree (sociology and history). I do think it colours the world view, and maybe even how we interact on the internet, but have oddly never thought or explored it in anyway. I'd love to see what this post reveals!

[superborb]

Mostly that fandom tends to be more hums than STEM, BUT the majority of responses say they're somewhere in both, not purely one or the other!

[ehyde]

I chose humanities on your poll by instinct, and then wondered if that was really true. My degree is in fiber science/apparel design, which, if I had to pick one, I'd say humanities, but I could make an argument for both or neither. My parents are STEM people and I married into a family of STEM people, and most of my friends are STEM people too. Back in high school I was very good at math & science, and I've definitely had regrets about my degree choice and WISHED I was a STEM person (I have Thoughts about STEM recruitment programs--whether aimed at girls or more general--but that would probably be its own post).

All of which is to say--I may have answered your poll incorrectly but I'm honestly not sure.

[superborb]

Ah, it's interesting how we define ourselves against the environment we grew up in! Like, you were the most hums of your family and friends, so it made you feel like you were more hums than you otherwise might have objectively?

[ehyde]

Mhm, yeah (although one of my sisters went on to be an english major, so I no longer have the honor of being the least STEM in the family).

[spatz]

I was sad there was no 'both' option on that poll! Like, I was a film studies major and I love stories in all forms, and I write, but I almost double-majored in biology (damn you, getting mono in senior year *shakes fist*) and my current job (massage therapy) deals with a lot of applied anatomy and physiology, which I have been a nerd about since high school. So both? Both is good. I'm gonna use my science nerd icon with the butchered Shakespeare quote just to make my point ;)

I suppose if you want a more meta answer: my brain processes systems & structure well, and likes to problem-solve, whether that's interconnected biological processes or narrative structure. So it's not inherently one or the other, and I like applying it to both.

I loathe physics, though. It makes my brain hurt. *laughs*

[superborb]

Haha, the least scientific twitter poll!! I guess it really is that most people feel a mix, which should probably have been what I expected!

[douqi]

I picked humanities but as someone trained in law under the British model (law as something you go into as an undergrad, not something you do after you've already got a degree in something else) I always feel somewhat out of place in any academic groupings! We're definitely not a science, not really humanities, and not really a social science despite occasional efforts at shoehorning us into that box.

[superborb]

It's interesting bc even though I know a lot of lawyers who went after science grad school (patent law mostly), I do strongly associate it with hums -- probably bc in the US, most pre-law students are hums?

[rekishi]

STEM all the way. But I guess you aren't surprised by that. ^^;

[superborb]

Hehe, not really! Though a few people I would have expected to id more strongly one way or the other gave 'in between' answers...

[rekishi]

There's an in between option in the first place?

[issenllo]

Neither? English lit in uni but went into law later, so *shrugs* Tho' I'm evidence-based due to both

[superborb]

It's so interesting that douqi above also mentioned law as being neither, when I so strongly associate it with hums. A result of how many pre-law students are hums majors maybe.

[issenllo]

Possibly because while the general course of study in law also tends to be broad-based and draws in what would be humanities-related stuff (human rights, intellectual property, the legal system, etc.) the practice of law is actually very narrow-based and tends to be quite specific. So it ends up neither. In my experience, anyway. >_> I think humanities students have a slight advantage going into law because of the large amounts of reading, but then again STEM people are better organised *g*

[silveredeye]

Probably more STEM by nature and training. I have a degree and a half in computer-bothering and I'm often at least a little aware that I *don't* really have the kind of training in, idk, analyzing a text that a humanities person would have. (And by now I've also forgotten most of what I learned about statistics, which is a travesty.)

I do read more humanities nonfiction for fun than I read STEM nonfiction, but I think that's because my dayjob is STEM and humanities nonfiction offers more variety than STEM nonfiction would.

[superborb]

Statistics is often in one ear and out the other for me... I don't know why it's so hard for it to stick in my brain!

Yeah, I think the other problem is that pop sci tends to be too for the nonexpert, so I end up seeing the flaws / simplifications and it bothers me. Vs I won't really get that from most hums nonfiction.

[silveredeye]

It *is* really weird when some part of math just doesn't stay in your brain, right? I have the same problem with logarithms, of all things: I can sort of do them, but first I have to write "3²=9, log₃9=2" in the margin. Which was kind of embarrassing the first... decade or so, but is kind of funny by now. Logarithms absolutely not allowed in this brain!

[x_los]

In a way I feel the entire project of transformative fandom is quintessentially high-key humanities, tho? Like the critical apparatus, the writing, the reviewing.

[superborb]

Is it though? Like I think this is where high level study of any field just starts to intersect. Riffing off and building on other experiments, poking at missing elements in others' works?

[x_los]

like maybe in terms of mindset, but if it's lit/art production and litcrit, to me that's like, definitionally so?

[superborb]

Trueeee, and like, I think the ~75% of the poll self defining as hums people probably supports your point.

[stultiloquentia]

I always grumble at the perceived opposition. I grew up with a scientist parent and an artist parent, spent alternate weekends fossil-hunting and art museum strolling, and read a ton of pop science. When I had to pick a major in college, I could have swung either way -- I liked and was good at nearly everything. I picked humanities, but that doesn't mean I lost the personal qualities that would have made me a good botanist.

Namely, I think my STEM background inclines me strongly to...

I nurtured the same things in an English grad program. The subjects are different, but I get grumpy when people assume the rigor isn't the same.

I'm incredibly curious about what your HUMANITIES OF IT ALL person was referring to! I LOLed, but also...Too many close literary readings on their feed? Too much Spivak? Too many arguments involving squishy feelings?

I have to say I love having STEM people in my circle. So much of my feed is fandom, and so much of fandom is textual analysis, that I'm always excited when somebody talks about science at me, or shows me pictures of slime molds or whatever they're into.

[superborb]

Oh yeah, I do not at all want to suggest that the rigor isn't there in hums grad programs!

I think the diversity of opinion is one of the best things about fandom! In RL it's so easy to be in a circle with people with similar backgrounds.

[lirazel]

I'm 1000% a humanities person. I respect the hell out of STEM people, but that is just not the way my mind works at all. I was never good at math or science, and I'm less interested in them than I am in the arts, history, sociology, etc. I have always been a voracious bookworm and a writer, and until I was in my mid-20s, I read almost exclusively fiction. (I have since come to love really good nonfiction, too, but it wasn't formative for me the way fiction was.) I do think that probably my experiences contribute to the fact that I deeply value subjectivity, personal experience, and empathy as the most important ways to engage with the world. I care about people and relationships more than anything.

That said, when it comes to actual scientific fact, I do try to follow the science (or what experts are reporting is the science. Since I don't do science on my own, I have to accept their authority). The American suspicion of experts deeply frustrates me. When people start in on why GMOs or vaccines are terrible or why climate change isn't real, I lose my mind.

[superborb]

It's interesting bc there's obviously SO many ways to be a hums person, like, I feel that there could be a person who equally self identified as a hums person who read exclusively nonfiction!